Working on this piece has made me - ONCE AGAIN! - re-evaluate the methods to deal with ends. Along with the FS/BS issue, it's another interesting one with tatters having various favourite methods. For a while, I was really keen on the "magic-loop-method-without-a-magic-loop". This is where you fold back your thread on the last chain and finger-tat with the loop. When you get to the end, you pass the other thread through the loop, and pull back until both threads are within the last chain. Difficult to explain in words (as many tatting methods). I did make a pictorial of this but I have now removed the link from my Techniques page for the reasons below. Since the pictorial I had been meaning to make a video of this but then I had a few too many times where I couldn't pull the threads back and I ended up breaking one and then it's too short to fix it and that can be really infuriating. Because of course, that happens right at the end, when you've done all the tatting! I've even had a couple of instances of the tatting falling apart after I'd completed everything and that's pretty awful too. These are the reasons that have prevented me making a video of this method because I find it doesn't work perfectly every time.
And then there are the magic loops and I think that can be a good method but you must remember to put one in at the very start and then I find it gets in the way a bit as I tat. It has to be the right size too or it can also be difficult to pull the thread back and I've had a few fights with those!
So then there is the sewing in of ends. For some reason, I used to dislike doing that with a passion. I don't really know why. I love tatting and I just wish there was some magic way to make those ends disappear! Woosh, they're gone, they're strong, the tatting won't fall apart. But no. There are no magic wands for making ends disappear.
On this piece, I have reverted to sewing them in with a needle. It works fine, the threads are knotted first so they won't come apart and when done well, is practically invisible. I'm starting to tell myself that if I spend that many hours on tatting some lovely lace, surely I can spend a few extra minutes sewing in the ends.
What about you? What's your preferred method? Are you completely happy with it?
Best wishes,
Frivole
I nearly always sew my ends in. I've never been able to get the Magic Thread thing to work. Honestly, I've really never understood why some people object so strongly to sewing the ends in; it only takes a couple of minutes, and it always works.
ReplyDeleteThere are only a couple of instances where I don't sew. If hiding the ends isn't necessary, then of course I don't-- for example, a butterfly where the ends can be antennae, or a Christmas ornament or sun-catcher where the ends can be cut very long and tied together for a hanger.
Or, if the pattern ends with a ring with no joins, I will convert it to a SSSR, tat the other thread into the first half of it, and the thread used to make the SSSR is automatically hidden in the second half. There are very few patterns where this works, though.
I use hand quilting needles for sewing the ends in. They have a large enough eye to take the tatting thread, but a fine enough point to fit between the stitches. I have a compact of assorted quilted needles, with different sizes that work for small, medium, and large sized threads.
Thank you for your reply Miranda… I don't know why I'm "one of these people"!! I do a lot of sewing anyway so why do I object to sewing ends in? I don't know but I shall work at learning to love to sew ends in!
ReplyDeleteYes, I agree with almost all Miranda has already stated with the exception of needle preference.
DeleteI find quilting needles a bit short. - or I have bought the wrong size, perhaps? So, I use #24 tapestry needles even on # 80 thread..
The eye is large enough and the tip us blunt so does not fray at catch any thread.
I don't mind finishing off the ends and actually do it as I go along. Keeps it all neat and tidy. : )) Fox
Fox, I love self-threading needles - have you tried them? I was finding it often difficult and fiddly to thread tatting cotton through the eye of a needle so I tried self-threading needles and it's so quick to push the thread through and get on with sewing (I think it may have been Jane E. who had mentioned them)
DeleteActually, I have posted about them quite a few times, and mailed some out to tatters! Sadly, I lost my package and have not replaced them...now that I am reminded, I should order more. They are good! You are quite correct, as usual! Fox. : ))
DeleteFound them!
DeleteI've started, for an year or so, to make what you call "magic-loop-method-without-a-magic-loop", but not carrying the ball thread inside, then I sew in only one end. I used to sew in both ends. Also, exactly like Miranda wrote, there's some patterns where I hide both ends in the last ring. I should be very grateful to tatters who shared online their method, like you with your videos on youtube, I've learned almost all from them :)
ReplyDeleteThank you Ninetta! And your take on the loop method is interesting.
DeleteI've also resorted to sewing in ends after having a difficult time in getting the other methods to work. After some advice from a tatter at a local festival, I learned that I can buy needles small enough to sew size 100!
ReplyDeleteThe only problem I have is when working with variegated threads. I always get color blips. I'm not sure if I'm sewing the ends in wrong, or if color blips are unavoidable? I've never been a sewer so don't have much experience with different techniques.
Robin, I sew into the stitch "caps" on the back side of the work. It's basically a whip-stitch technique. I come up through each stitch cap from the bottom. When I've sewn enough that it feels secure, I give the thread a little tug to tighten up the sewing. This almost always gets rid of the blips. Every once in a great while, it fails-- I don't know why-- but since it's on the back side it doesn't matter.
DeleteThanks, Miranda. I'll try that out and look up videos on how to make a whip stitch :)
DeleteMiranda, do you mean you sew all from the back? I work from the top and sew into the hollow of each curve of the caps, so a bit like a zig-zag.
DeleteThis piece has lovely shapes! Really nice.
ReplyDeleteBy the way, your May 2012 piece inspired me to try the same motif in ecru, and I am loving it! Thanks. : ))
Can't find the May 2012 piece… which was it??
DeleteSorry! March. Here:
Deletehttp://leblogdefrivole.blogspot.ca/2012/03/mystery-solved-dorethas-teardrop-edging.html
Oh yes, seen yours now, it looks great!
DeleteI sometimes do a "blend" of a loopless magic loop and sewing techniques. ("Sometimes" because it seems like on everything I do I experiment with something different!) I lay a spare strand of thread in along the core thread line for a few stitches worth of tatting and leave it there, putting it in again for the last few stitches worth.
ReplyDeleteThen I remove the laid-in threads and thread each of my (long) tails onto a needle that's as close in size to the thread as I can find - a wee bit thicker is okay. I thread the needles through where I took the laid in threads out - plus one more stitch. I call this "tunneling" - and of course I use just one needle and do one thread at a time.
My laid in thread at the beginning is my insurance that while tatting the stitches firmly there absolutely is going to be enough room for that needle-and-thread tail at the end to get through. I go through the extra stitch that will be a bit tighter because I'm a security freak. I want a wee bit of tightness at the end and with only one stitch even if it was a bit too tight the needle can usually manage it. If not, I've still been able to get a good amount in.
Then, no matter which method I use, I only cut the tails off shortish. I don't do the final trim of my ends in anything (knitting, crochet etc) until after the first wash.
On thick threads I've even been known to split the plies and sew each ply in different direction (tunneling where I can, even if I didn't plan in advance with a laid thread) because sometimes no method at all is satisfactory if I don't separate the plies - I can't stand noticeable bulk in an otherwise dainty piece of work. :-D
Your methods sound very thorough Megan. Your tatting must look impeccable!
DeleteI wasn't able to catch on to the Magic Loop method, but I also gave up very easily. I don't mind sewing the ends in, and I use the same sewing method you use. I prefer a tapestry need, because I tend to stab myself!
ReplyDeleteI can't do the magic loop method either, mine used to come undone long before I finished the item, so I always sew in my ends now, ok it takes a few minutes and at the moment I need good light but it works for me.
ReplyDeleteLooking lovely I like the way you have a square out of the pattern. Do you have many more to do?
Margaret
I'm undecided on the shape or size at the moment! So it's a mystery to me too what the finished piece will look like. :-)
DeleteIt is looking lovely. I sew ends in, it's easier than the method that was recommended when I first started tatting, which was to oversew the ends on the back of the work. I'd inevitably forget which was the 'wrong' side and sew some rounds on one side and some on the other! I more or less gave up hiding in a SSSR when an earring fell apart. On sewing in ends, I think that the needle choice is important. Use the wrong needle and it can be very frustrating. I might try Miranda's method too, it sounds interesting.
ReplyDeleteOversewing sounds like a very unappealing job to me! Sewing in definitely easier I think.
DeleteTo be honest, Frivole, I hate hiding threads! I sometimes puts me off tatting. I understand Japanese tatters who tie, but and glue their ends. But this may come loose in the was after a few years!
ReplyDeleteI scrutised your patterns, and nothis is visible. Well done!
I try my best but like Megan said, I don't like to see extra bulk in my chains either so that's why I'm starting to think that sewing into the caps is probably the best method. Never gluing though - I wouldn't do that to a nice piece of lace!
DeleteIch mache Magic-Schleife sehr selten. Bin auch kein großer Freund beim vernähen. Medist ein Faden Magic, ein Faden vernähen. Kleben mag ich nicht für diese wunderschöne Arbeit. Das könnte sich wieder lösen. Also doch eine dünne Nadel und vernähen.
ReplyDeleteThat looks wonderful!! :)
ReplyDeleteI can do the magic loop thing, but it doesn't work all the time, and sometimes the loops cut my hands when I'm trying to pull them. Bloody tatting is not pretty. I find the magic loops work best on finer thread. Probably because I don't pull those stitches as tight as I do the larger threads (trying to get the larger threads to be tiny, I think).
ReplyDeleteMost of the time I sew the ends in with a very small tapestry needle. I zig-zag through the caps too, always starting the stitch from the top, then when I give the thread a final tug, the stitching seems to disappear. I don't like using sharp needles, because I've split and broken the thread using them.
I always smile at Marty's quips! Funny!
DeleteI always keep forgetting to do the Magic Loop, even though I don't have it down pat anyway. I have no trouble sewing it in at the end.
ReplyDeleteI like your tatted piece now. I would make maybe four to six of them tatting them together as I go. Nice center piece or larger doily...